Dr. John Gillis: One Latin Teacher Away From Cheerleading

By Brian Wish

Dr. John Gillis, Jr. is the best-selling co-author of Powerhouse: 13 Teamwork Tactics that Build Excellence and Unrivaled Success, and an acclaimed business facilitator who founded the pioneering leadership development consultancy LeadershipX. The world’s leading organizations look to Dr. Gillis to provide them with the practical knowledge needed to improve their performance by focusing on key issues. In his decades as a global management consultant, he drove growth at dozens of blue-chip companies across a wide spectrum of industries, including IBM, American Express, Dell Technologies, PayPal, and Verizon, among many others.

As the Principal of LeadershipX, Dr. Gillis created a next-generation, digital, and high-fidelity business simulation to engage, immerse and develop global executives, and builds collaborative business relationships with clients by consulting on strategy / board alignment, talent management, change management, and organization development. Giving back to the community, John was on the Board of Wonders & Worries, President of the PennCLO Doctoral Alumni Network, Scout Cub Master, coach of numerous sports teams, and the founder and president of non-profit CampLIFE! He lives in Austin, Texas, with his wife and four children. He received his doctoral degree from the University of Pennsylvania’s Graduate School of Education and Wharton Business School.

In this episode, Dr. Gillis and Bryan discuss:

– Why it is important to be supportive of our kid’s activities, even if it’s something we didn’t expect them to try.

– The importance of learning from a multitude of perspectives, and how anecdotes and academic research work together to get a point across.

– How teamwork allows us to make a bigger impact, and what it takes to get a team to function correctly.

The show is shared on the following platforms:

• Soundcloud
• Apple Podcasts
• Google Podcasts
• Spotify

Transcript:

Bryan Wish:

It’s great to have you here.

Dr. John Gillis:

It’s great to be here today. Looking forward to the discussion.

Bryan Wish:

I know, and we’re going to get started. I’m actually going to do something I’ve never done to get started. You have a map behind you of the world, okay? It’s got, I’m looking at North America, Latin America. I can see Africa. I can see China and Russia. I can see Montreal. So, to tick off this Friday afternoon, if you could throw a pin and land anywhere on that map right now, where would you go and why?

Dr. John Gillis:

It’s not a very difficult question. I do love global travel. My wife and I have been to every continent except for one and we actually have Antarctica planned for February of 2023. And so, we’ll check off the last continent. So, that’s my one, but it’s already planned and scheduled. But deep down, I’m a Kiwi at heart. I love New Zealand, and anytime I have the opportunity, I would love to go back there.

Bryan Wish:

Okay. Well, I love it. I’ve never been to New Zealand, but I’ve heard it’s gorgeous and I love the global start we’re starting off here. So, it’s still a one away show. And I’m curious, what is your one away moment that you want to share with us today?

Dr. John Gillis:

My one away moment. There’s so many when you reflect back on your life. But when I had an opportunity when I was a sophomore year of high school and I was playing football, I was on the offensive line. And my Latin teacher asked the entire Latin class if there would be anyone males that would be interested in joining her cheerleading squad. She was also the cheerleading sponsor. And at that point, you’re 16-year-old, you’re a male, you’re playing football and all the guys kind of snickered at it. But the more we looked at it, the more I thought it might be intriguing. And I worked hard. I was weighing out the opportunity to work in an air-conditioned gym versus the hot Texas heat of football.

Dr. John Gillis:

And when I told her, “Mrs. Rawlins, I’m very interested in possibly doing this, but I’m an offensive lineman. I have no flexibility. I can’t tumble. I can’t do any of this.” She said, “John, that would be fantastic for you to do this. And we’d love to have you try out.” And that one decision going out on a risk, going out on a limb, doing something with the entire high school, all your peers watching you and judging you at the tryouts, and then having to vote to decide if you would go forward and make the squad or not. It was a huge moment. That was a huge risk.

Dr. John Gillis:

But yet, it turned out to give me lots of opportunities afterwards. So, I appreciate Mrs. Rawlins, my sponsor. She appreciates me, John Gillis, being the cheerleader back in high school. And it’s been an experience since then.

Bryan Wish:

All right. That’s not where I expected to start the conversation, but I can appreciate it. My best friend in college was a cheerleader at University of Georgia. So, I can appreciate the, maybe, discomfort that maybe was induced at the beginning, but maybe it sounds like an incredible experience that was very formative. So, as you look back on that experience, you went and you did something and so many people judging you. What was going through your head? I mean, how did it make you feel to be on the team?

Dr. John Gillis:

It’s very threatening. You have 10 of the cutest girls in school, there’s one other guy, huge charisma, huge personality. You’ve never done it before. You have no skills. Everyone else has been doing it for years. And so, it really is a very uncomfortable environment, quite frankly, where you’re trying to learn a new skill when everyone else is already very proficient, if not excellent at the skill. And yet, it was even with that onboarding, it was an opportunity where the one other male, his name was Andy. And we went to cheerleading camp and there were thousands of high school girls there and there’s probably 20 guys.

Dr. John Gillis:

And he came up to me and he was like, “John, our goal here is not to just be better cheerleading, but we want to win the Spirit Award.” And I was like, “Okay, but I don’t know how to win the Spirit Award. I’ve never done this before. What do I need to do?” And he said, all the squads are going for Spirit Award. So, our goal during camp is to be as friendly as we can, talk to every girl here, so at the end of camp, they’ll vote for us for having the most spirit. And that was a great introduction that even if you don’t have the skills, that a lot of it’s about relationships and going out of your comfort zone and saying hi to people that you don’t know and building that rapport.

Dr. John Gillis:

And at the end, when we won the Spirit Award at the end of camp, it wasn’t just a recognition of our squad having the most spirit, but it was a recognition of, Yes, I can jump into this activity, this sport, this endeavor that I’m not good at. But yet, with the right approach, with the right middle mindset with building relationships, we might be successful.”

Bryan Wish:

Yeah. Well, I mean, great story. My first thought was that’s a lot of estrogen to handle. And my second thought was, I mean, the fact that you shaped your mindset and in a way that, I think allowed you to approach it with a positive attitude and like, “How do we learn? How do we go into it and learn the most we can and become better as individuals?” I mean, that’s just a powerful place to be. I mean, in the sea of discomfort, I’m sure. I mean, that’s a lot. I have never been in an environment with a thousand women and 20 guys or a hundred, that’s crazy.

Dr. John Gillis:

Well, it was crazy. I will tell you though, the growth and development from that year. And I did it in my senior year also. So, I had two years of high school cheer leading camp and it was fun. Just the first year was great and it was building confidence when I really didn’t have any. But then a year later, it was having that confidence with the years of experience and just the difference of putting that effort in and building that capacity.

Bryan Wish:

Totally. So, let’s talk a little bit more about that. You said this is a major growth opportunity for me, confidence wise. As you look back on that, where did you find the most development within?

Dr. John Gillis:

That’s a good question. Why would, especially being in the heart of Texas, where football reign supreme, why would you leave the football team and go out where the risks were so great? And you could easily, in the tryout, a flip flop or a back-end spring was required and you have to go backwards and you could easily land on your head and doing that in front of all your peers. Why take that risk? And there’s several parts of life I look back on it and say, “Why did I do that? Why did I have the idea that I could achieve at something that I really didn’t have the basis for the foundation?”

Dr. John Gillis:

And I think a lot of it goes to the support system at home. Not that my dad was a cheerleader or that my mom was a cheerleader, but that they gave me the encouragement and the support to go and try something that even if they didn’t know how to do it, that they were saying, “Yes, go try this.” And you especially look at my dad, and his son is leaving the football team to go try for the cheerleader. And all it was, was encouragement. And I can tell you, my mom, whether it’s cheerleading or anything else in my life, it was always saying, “John, you’re the best you can do this. We believe in you,” and constant. And so, I really look at the parental influences, what gave me that foundation to try things, whether it was this or one of numerous other things in my life.

Bryan Wish:

Yeah. Well, we live in this, it’s funny. I feel we live in this society where with so many kids who, they grow up under this parental lens, right? And they’re like, parents are trying to shape and mold them, who they want them to be. Your parents, it sounds like they said, “No. We’re not going to put handcuffs on John. We’re going to have John be who he wants to be, and then support him in those endeavors and quests to let him become the person he’s supposed to be.” Is that fair?

Dr. John Gillis:

I think that’s very fair. And there is a shaping and the molding. The tiger mom saying, “This is what you have to do.” But the other approach is really saying, “I’m going to give you a foundation because we’re not going to be able to always protect you or put the bubble around you.” And it’s really how I try to parent my four children today is that, “We want to give you a rock foundation that you can stand, not on sand, but on rock. And with that foundation, that you’ll be successful.” And yes, none of my four children are cheerleaders. So, I’m not shaping or promoting them to do what I did, but yet, that they’ll be successful in endeavors that they’re going for.

Dr. John Gillis:

I have one daughter, that’s a gymnast. My wife and I weren’t gymnasts. I have a son that’s really big into ice climbing and rock climbing. And my wife and I never did that, but yet, they have the foundation and they have the encouragement to go and try these things that they never, not that they wouldn’t have had the opportunity, but that we try to give the foundation and the encouragement where they can pursue what activities that they want with us. I don’t want to say shape and mold and that we’re directing, but we’re really hopefully enabling. And that’s what my parents did for me, enabled me to do something.

Dr. John Gillis:

And it’s really, it’s partly the financial resources and the time resources and the carpools, but a lot of it, it’s just the mental health aspect of being that encourager in the background so that someone’s willing to take a risk.

Bryan Wish:

Yeah. Well, that’s beautiful. And they probably, your kids probably won’t rebel against you when they’re older because you let them be who you want to be.

Dr. John Gillis:

We’ll see. They’re teenagers today. So, we’ll see how we do. We’ll come back in a few years.

Bryan Wish:

You still have time to mess up. I’m going to check in. Okay?

Dr. John Gillis:

Yeah.

Bryan Wish:

All right. Well, cool. Great. I mean, it seems this high school experience, your parents, you went for it in your own way and in a way that suited you and were supported in that process. You said, it helped give you confidence and to believe in yourself to maybe pursue some of these things because you had that support. And then, you also, it was very formative in how it shaped you thereafter. As you look back on that experience in high school, going to that summer camp, not the football camp, as you kind of look at maybe where you are today in life, where did that molding and the formative of time in your life, maybe play itself out more and more in an impactful way, as you maybe, left that chapter of your life?

Dr. John Gillis:

Yeah. So, I left the chapter, but the experiences are still there. And so, in a nutshell, I did cheer in high school and I thought I was done. It was just fun. Again, I didn’t have the great skills. And then, there’s one person in my life that came in my senior year to coach our cheerleading squad. It actually was two people. We had high school cheerleading coaches, Billy and Bob. And they said, “Hey, we think you can cheer in college. And we think going to the University of Texas, that you should be a cheerleader.” I never would’ve done that without those two individuals encouraging me.

Dr. John Gillis:

So, it wasn’t just my parents because Mrs. Rawlins given the structure and then hiring these two coaches that believed in me and gave me the resources and the connections, and really the encouragement to go try out for college, as well as teaching summer camps in the summer. I made numerous friends in the summer. I cheered at college was. I ended up leading cheers in front of 70,000 people at the University of Texas. The college cheerleading camps ended up taking me to Japan to teach and get the, going back to the beginning of this conversation, the global experience. And I would easily add Japan to New Zealand with my list.

Dr. John Gillis:

I went to Mexico and was judging cheerleading competitions. And in 1996, we did the opening ceremonies of the Olympics, the first 12 minutes in Atlanta. And so today, this morning, in the opening ceremonies, what’s going on at Beijing at the Winter Olympics, and it brings back those memories. No, I’m not a cheerleader today. But yes, when the opening ceremonies of the Olympics comes on, it brings back those wonderful memories back in ’96 with 400 of the top collegiate cheerleaders from around the country, getting together and working for two weeks in the Georgia heat in order to put together the best routine we could in those first 12 minutes.

Dr. John Gillis:

So, no longer a cheerleader, but those experiences today, I carry with me whether I am talking about Japan in a global work environment, or if I’m watching the Olympics. But really, it’s about the hard work, the teamwork. It’s really looking at females working together in an athletic field and that carried forth in some of my work and authorship of books. And today, I do a lot of leadership development. And a lot of it’s being in front of a crowd, facilitating conversations, very similar to some of the skills that’s built back at Darrell K Royal Memorial Stadium, instead of 70,000 people, I might have 70 or 700 in audience today, but it still goes back to some of those key assets.

Bryan Wish:

Yeah, absolutely. And while you might have been cheerleading in Texas Stadium, I just want the vote of confidence that Sanford Stadium in Georgia’s is a better place to be. Right?

Dr. John Gillis:

Well this last year, Georgia was definitely a place to be with the national championship that they got.

Bryan Wish:

Good. Yeah. I just want to make sure we’re on the same page. So, but no, I want to go back to what you said. Well, that chapter, from you participating as an athlete in this sport maybe ended the chapter really, it informed the future chapters that followed and gave you these global experiences. Has it contributed to your work today? Something you said I want to pick up on, it includes transition into your work because I think that’s fascinating as well.

Bryan Wish:

You talked about watching a large group of women working together. I mean you throughout a number of years, right? You’re observing teams in a sense and dynamics. But as male, as a minority and seeing women in the workforce today and I think it’s great how women are being empowered to take on more and more leadership roles and really change from the past. What did you observe then, watching women work together and how does that relate to maybe leadership and women in roles today?

Dr. John Gillis:

A lot of people debate it for years if cheerleading was an athletic sport or not. But you look at the amount of weight training, you look at the amount of conditioning, you look at the skills that goes into tumbling, the confidence that you have to have and the bravery to do stunts and basket tosses and pyramids, and all that combined was just fascinating to me. As I watched all these females work together, not only to do the individual, but also to coordinate and do the team efforts such as the pyramids and things like that.

Dr. John Gillis:

And I only think that in the last couple years, that people have really actually seen what I got to see back in the day with a popular Netflix series Cheer. And they’re watching the Barrow Junior College and they’re seeing the amount of effort, the amount of skills, the amount of discipline that it takes with that cheer squad. And they’ve put two seasons out there and you’re really starting to see it now. But it’s what I got to see years ago when I watched all these females working so hard and yet making it look effortless because they’re doing it with a smile on their face to encourage the crowd. So, I’m actually thrilled with the series that’s come out because I think people can now more fully appreciate the level of effort, determination skills, athletic capability that cheerleaders actually do have.

Bryan Wish:

Yeah, no. Super cool. I mean, it’s just neat that you have the perspective that you do, right? You talk to, let’s just say most men, I want to say, the majority of them have the experience you have. So, you’re the foundation, the lens that maybe you’ve been able to build on and speak from and lead from is different at the foundational level. So, John, you talked about how these early developments and cheering have been very formative in shaping your career and also maybe the work that you do within, how did you get into the space that you’re in? I mean, what I’d love for you to share what you’re doing today and maybe what led you when you realized, “Hey, this is where I want to kind of plant my feet.”

Dr. John Gillis:

Yeah, no. It’s, to me, a very linear career path, but it’s not one that you actually set out at the beginning and figure out. At Texas when I was cheering, I was actually a psychology major and I love that major, but I also knew I wanted to get in the business world. So, when I graduated, I had the opportunity to go to Baylor University and get my MBA. And I was paid for by coaching the cheerleading squad. And I also did the Pom Squad and the Mascots and [inaudible 00:19:26] Men. We call them Yell leaders, song leaders, Mascots and [inaudible 00:19:28] Men at Baylor.

Dr. John Gillis:

So, I just continued the cheerleading, but also got my MBA. And so, when I graduated, I had the opportunity to go start my consulting career. I worked at some of the best companies, IBM and Accenture, some smaller consulting companies also, but it’s all focused on the human capital side. So, really looking at change management, leadership development, human performance, performance management, a lot of different areas. With a different organization, we did the largest, what they call HR outsourcing. It was over a billion-dollar deal and we were working globally.

Dr. John Gillis:

And so, it exposed me to a lot of fantastic thought leaders. It exposed me to the global work environment and what it takes to actually coordinate just like a trillion squad or soccer team, but what we’re doing in the business world to coordinate in order to execute, to achieve our goals. And so, lots of consulting experiences building up to that and where I am today is really focused on those four areas that human capital is required in the business world. It’s really looks at the strategic planning, a board and a leadership team need to do, it’s then the leadership of the organization and how leadership works, not just within the C-suite, but then the different departments. It’s the teamwork and building powerhouse teamwork for the coordination of the leaders across all those departments.

Dr. John Gillis:

And then my final area, which was actually my first area at IBM, is the change management. When you have a strategic plan in the leadership and all these leaders working together as a team, we are moving the ball forward. We have goals, we have strategic objectives, we have strategic priorities that we’re working towards, and it requires change within the organization in order to not have status quo, but to take our organization the next level. And so, that’s the fourth and final piece.

Dr. John Gillis:

So, linear path, and then it went from cheerleading and psychology and business to getting consulting and global experience. But where we are today is really focused on those top four areas. How we can take an organization from where they are today, there as is, and get into tomorrow’s to be that future ideal state.

Bryan Wish:

Yeah. So, neat. I mean, to see a vision, work with a team, see a vision, then go conquer that vision and be a part of helping shape that and giving them the tools and planning and to go do it. I mean, it has to be extremely rewarding for you, share what you are able to. But are there any, when you look at kind of the work that you’ve done, clients you’ve had in the past, do any stand out that you look at from where they were to where they are today that you just have never expected or you couldn’t be prouder of? I mean, what kind of hits home for you?

Dr. John Gillis:

There’s a lot of great success stories. There’s all a lot of clients that struggle because a lot of what they’re trying to do, it’s not easy. It’s hard. And whether they hire an outside consultant, whether they’re totally dedicated, they have the board aligned. There are still some large changes that they’re doing that are difficult. The business world is hard. It’s not something that’s easy to just say, “Hey, we’re going to do this today.”

Dr. John Gillis:

When I look back, I look at several success stories. I look at a global food manufacturer that was operating around the world and them saying that they want to get out of all these different IP systems and they want to have one source of truth. One what they call an enterprise resource planning system, ERP and putting in all over the world. In most companies, they say, “We’re going to do it this region or we’re only going to do this module within the IT.” That this company was able to align their board, their senior staff, allocate the resources to say, “We’re going to do all modules and we’re going to do every location around the world.” And that was a fascinating success story where they received awards.

Dr. John Gillis:

Another success story is a company with a wonderful culture. It was where they celebrated successes and I’ve never seen a company do it this well. It was a company where everyone knows them. And a lot of, almost everybody is a customer of this company, but yet if you go inside the company and you see the successes, you see the celebrations, you see people recognizing five year and 10 year and 15-year employees. You see cubicles filled with awards that are recognizing not for some elaborate award, but a walking the talk award. This company really had a culture that celebrated success.

Dr. John Gillis:

The final one that I wanted to share, if you look at this global IT implementation, or we look at this smaller culture that has been powerful. But it’s really looking at the smaller organizations, the nonprofits that are working within a community where we can say, “We need to equip your leadership to think outside the box, to align and to identify where we’re headed to.” We want to improve not only those leaders, but we want to improve the teamwork within. And it’s a small local nonprofit within Austin, Texas, but yet the benefit that they can have and impact all the people that come to this nonprofit for services, it multiplies.

Dr. John Gillis:

And so, global IT, national culture or local nonprofit, but on any of those, the impact you make multiplies, because you’re helping benefit either the employees, the customers, or the community.

Bryan Wish:

I just want to build on that because, I mean, I completely see what you’re saying. And when you’re helping large organizations at such a high level, your direct impact is impacting the changing layers and layers and layers below. And when you do a good job, it creates a lot of positive changes. And I should say, the energy, the financials, all the pieces of that puzzle. And so, them listening and you being a part of that change instead, I mean, it sounds like you’re not just, you have the ability to impact thousands and thousands of people all at once.

Dr. John Gillis:

Yeah. Partly, its employees. And we, even with that effort, we are doing what we called stakeholder analysis and making sure that we surveyed the employees, we looked at the managers, we looked at the executive leaders to make sure that we had alignment because you do know you’re impacting the employees. But you know what? While that’s employees, the second example, the national, it was about internal within their company and impacting the customer experience and making sure that the customers had a good experience.

Dr. John Gillis:

And then, my favorite of course, is that local one because they were dealing with health issues, that nonprofit. And so, you knew if you could help the strategic plan, if you could help the executive leadership, if you could help the teamwork, if you could help the change management, that those initiatives that they were putting in place today was going to help the health of all around the city that we are living in.

Bryan Wish:

Yeah. What a fulfilling role that you have to play and continue to play. John, you wrote a book and I want to share kind of, let you share kind of the title. I want you to share what made you write the book. And I would love to hear about your author journey.

Dr. John Gillis:

It was a fascinating author journey, and I can tell you, I think I’m a good writer. And I learned through the book writing process that editors are my best friend. They took what we thought was a really good publication and they edited the heck out of it and I give them a lot of credit. And just it goes to show you where your strengths are and where you’re not strengths are. And the editors have definite strengths that I don’t have. I had the opportunity, I told you about my cheerleading background, but I grew up playing soccer all the way through sixth grade. So, not very long at all, but yet, it’s a great team sport. They’re learning coordination, both with their hands and their feet, really their feet in soccer, but also a little teamwork.

Dr. John Gillis:

And my daughters had a soccer team that I was coaching when they were four, five, six years old, and a new family moved to town and their daughter joined the team. And it just turns out that Sydney, the girl that joined the team, her mother was a professional soccer player that has played more international soccer matches for the United States more than any male or female from any country in the entire world. And so, when five-year-olds play soccer, after the game, you go and get an ice cream cone. And it just turns out that we would sit there and talk about these stories that Kristine Lilly had with the Women’s National Soccer Team, those stories we heard weekend, weekend, weekend.

Dr. John Gillis:

And so, I would travel on Monday through Thursday, doing leadership development, strategic planning, change management. And then, on the weekend, I’d hear Kristine’s stories about the US Women’s National Soccer Team at the Olympics, at the World Cup Championships and they are fascinating stories. I said, I wish that some of the companies I was working with, I wish they could have that same teamwork that you had with the US Women’s National Soccer team. And it’s not a smooth road.

Dr. John Gillis:

There are stories about winning the gold medal, but there are also stories that happened before that gold medal and what gave them the motivation to work hard to get that gold medal and what teams go through, the challenges that they go through. And so, we wrote a book called Gold Medal Teamwork about Kristine’s soccer stories with the US Women’s National Soccer Team. My wife was a business school professor at that time and a Dean of the business school. And she’s actually now CFO of a university, but she did the academic research to say, “Here’s the soccer story. Here’s the academic teamwork principles that apply to that.” And then, I use my business example stories to then say, “Here’s an example in the medical field, in the law field, in the oil and gas,” and gave real world examples.

Dr. John Gillis:

So, ideally when you read the book now, it’s fascinating to read someone’s stories from the US Women’s National Soccer Team on how to build a high performing team. But yet, you also know that it’s research backed with academic research and you can see very applicable practical examples of how this plays out in the business world. It was really fun to write. Again, the editors get a lot of credit and the book publisher came and said, “I know you wanted to call it Gold Medal Teamwork, but we think it should be called Powerhouse. And here is the reason why, and you go with people and their competencies and their expertise.”

Dr. John Gillis:

And if you look at the definition of powerhouse, it’s looking for a team that’s really looking for great energy and potential for success. And that’s what we all want today, to work on a team. No matter if we’re working in medical, if we’re working in legal, if we’re working in agriculture. Wherever we’re working, we want to `work with people who have great energy and we want to work on a team that has that potential for success. We want to be a part of that.

Bryan Wish:

I mean, I’ve never heard of that. I mean, a book that was written on high performance teams through the lens of a soccer story. I mean, that seems quite profound and with your wife, did I got that right? So, with your wife, so what a powerful journey that you guys were able to go on together. And it sounds very complimentary skill sets. It sounds like you guys have taught each other all about kind of your own lives.

Dr. John Gillis:

Most definitely. It really was. And today, even I think that, myself or Kristine or Lynette can get hired to go and speak on Powerhouse and how to build performing teams and it’s great. And we will do an assessment and track your maturity on teams and everything. But the most powerful talks are usually when all three of us are there together. Because when we talk about how we transform a team, empower a team, achieve a team, motivate a team, if all three of us are there, you’re going to hear the soccer story from the 1996 Olympics that illustrates the point. You’re going to hear Lynette talking about the academic research that justifies the point. And then you might hear me say, “Well, I was working with a company and a nonprofit organization and let me tell you their story.” And so, the person can learn from a multitude of different perspectives.

Bryan Wish:

Yeah, no, it seems quite powerful and perhaps why the book is called Powerhouse, but I can only imagine three people. I mean, so it got to be quite persuasive. I mean, perhaps intentionally, but just because you guys are being yourselves and sharing truth and I’m sure impacting audiences along the way. I mean, I’m curious for you, John is how has you and your wife’s relationship evolved? Maybe doing things and business together and it sounds like her role and your role, actually, they line up pretty nicely in the work that each of you do. How has, kind of maybe being partners in business enhanced your ability to be partners in life?

Dr. John Gillis:

We are very complimentary and very similar, but at the same time, very different. So, her role at the university is very focused in an academic setting on the finance, the HR, the philanthropy, and how the university runs, really everything outside of academics. Whereas, I’m going and doing consulting with different organizations. And so, the book really represents an opportunity for the two of us to come together. But on our day to day, we’re really kind of in two different worlds. The conversations at night are always interesting and good on what’s shared. And a lot of times things aren’t shared, but the book really was a true treasure, a moment, a two-year period of writing it, editing it, promoting it, where we actually dig into work side by side during the day.

Bryan Wish:

That’s cool. Well, I’m sure an experience you’ll never forget and [inaudible 00:33:42] one for you. How do you think you grew the most, as writing the book? What did you, maybe learned and uncover about yourself that you never thought possible?

Dr. John Gillis:

Kristine is meticulous in soccer and she can tell you every detail of every play of every game and why you passed to this area of the field or this way of a person’s body. And so, we had a description from the 1991 World Cup. And it was one of the most glorious moments at the Rose Bowl versus China. And Kristine wrote it all out in every detail about this one moment of the game. And yet, the editor took paragraphs and cut and summarized it to one. On the same flip token, my wife would have lots of academic research on this theory of teamwork and the editor would take all of that and summarize it into one or my stories.

Dr. John Gillis:

And so, what I think, I learned and the whole book is meant to be soccer as a metaphor and a storytelling about how to build high performing teamwork. So, you’re not just sitting there reading academic research or business stories, but I think it’s the way we communicate. We’ve got to communicate in a concise and compelling manner in order to convey our main point across. And so, hopefully, when you read the book that it moves quickly, but the idea here is that whether you’re reading the book or if you’re just executive presence in front of a team leading it, working as a teammate, trying to inspire change, trying to align their strategic vision, we need to be concise and compelling in a way that we get our message across that conveys what we’re trying to teach to influence.

Dr. John Gillis:

And so that our followers will know the direction they’re headed and why they’re headed that way. And I think the book, if you saw the editor comments, the red that showed up on that page, it was all trying to get that message into a nice type message in order to make the impact that we want. And I think that was my main key learning in a writing process, but also, I take that forward in the way hopefully we communicate today.

Bryan Wish:

Yeah, for sure. It makes a lot of sense. And just like the fact that you were able to recognize that about yourself and seeing the editor really stripped down your ideas into something that could be very clearly communicated. It’s powerful. And it’s like you feel a beating from the editor from like, “Oh my God, my beautiful words and stories.” But at the same time when you look back and you’re like, “Yeah, this is, this is this.” It hits hard for a reason. So, definitely a lot growth in that.

Bryan Wish:

And John, this has been a blast. I’ve so enjoyed this. I’ve learned about you late on a Friday afternoon. Thank you for taking the time. Thanks for kind of playing along with my jokes. I’m not usually this energized on a Friday afternoon, maybe it’s your energy. I don’t know. Where can people find you, hire you, buy your book, do all the things?

Dr. John Gillis:

I appreciate that. And I do enjoy this on a Friday afternoon. It’s a nice way to wrap it up. My website’s johngillisjr.com. Kristine, my author, we’re a team, kristinelilly@13.com. Or if you’re interested in leadership, business simulations, leadershipx.com. So, we really do appreciate it. I leave you with this. Patrick Lencioni wrote a book many, many years ago on The Five Dysfunctions of a Team. And it’s really in the more powerful teamwork books. But in the book, he said, “High performing teamwork is both powerful and rare.” And that was a really popular book.

Dr. John Gillis:

And if we do agree with them that it was powerful, but that was 15 or 20 years ago, the question is, why are companies not investing more in high performing teamwork today? Because if it’s powerful, but it’s also rare, we know that we talk about teamwork, but we’re not investing in it. We’re not developing it and we’re not receiving the benefits of what we could achieve.

Dr. John Gillis:

So, I just encourage everyone. My main takeaway, whether you’re a big soccer fan or not is, whether it’s cheerleading or soccer is, invest in your teamwork. Because that collaboration, the coordination, whatever your company is and whatever you’re trying to achieve, whether it’s a global food company or a local health nonprofit, you want to have good teamwork to achieve those goals.

Bryan Wish:

Love it. Love it. Love it. Beautiful quote. Patrick’s work is very profound. Thanks for leaving us with that, those nuggets of wisdom. And I can’t wait to hear how the audience responds.

Dr. John Gillis:

Thank you for the time today.

Bryan Wish:

Thank you. Thank you for joining me on The One Away Show. If you enjoyed this episode, as much as I did, please leave a review and follow us on Apple podcasts or Spotify. Have a one away moment you’d like to share? Follow me on Twitter or Instagram at bryanwish_ or reach out to me on LinkedIn and tell me about the moment that altered your life. The One Away show is produced by Arcbound, a company dedicated to helping entrepreneurs, experts, and visionaries launch authentic personal brands for message development to podcast production, social media content generation, and book writing, we work with you to create your arc. Head to arcbound.com to learn more. Thank you for listening and please join me next time on The One Away Show.

 

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